The state of marketing careers, with Sam Ogborn

Our fall retreat speaker on the career trends shaping the market today

Hi there! You’re reading the Bonfire newsletter from Kevan Lee & Shannon Deep. Each week, we highlight brand, marketing, and creative learnings from our experience as in-house marketers turned agency owners who think a lot about creativity, our relationship to work, and how all of that impacts our identities. We’ll also feature insights from our digital community of super smart folks (which you’re welcome to join).

Wishing you a great week!

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Career Q&A with Sam Ogborn

Real talk.

The modern marketing career looks wildly different than it did just five years ago. The pace is faster. The expectations are higher. The burnout is hotter. The rewards are … less rewarding.

Careers have changed.

Shouldn’t our approach to careers change, too?

Well we took this topic to one of our favorite marketing voices, Sam Ogborn, a marketing consultant for brands and agencies, social content creator, and adjunct professor at Miami University. Sam brings candid perspectives and brilliant trendspotting to all things marketing, including the new era of career design.

Sam is also the featured guest at our fall retreat, The Soft Reset. If you like what you hear in this Q&A with Sam, then we would LOVE to invite you to spend a week hanging out with her and like-minded career-curious folks in the French countryside this fall! New details and new rates are on our website. Send us an email; we’d love to chat.

In this Q&A, Sam opens up about how she’s redefined her career success, learned to advocate for herself, and stayed intentional in a world that often pushes us to simply react. Whether you’re deep in your career or rethinking your next move, we think you’ll find her perspective a breath of fresh air and reassuring that you’re not alone in how you feel.

Q&A

Rethinking the finish line

Was there ever a moment when you felt like you had to redefine what “success” meant to you? What came out of that shift?

Oh my god, yes. It would be an interesting experiment to ask people what their idea of success is. Growing up, I thought that I would be married with kids by 27, and now I'm 37, single, and loving my career.

If you asked my younger self if I was “successful” as an adult, my younger self would probably say no, because that's what society conditioned me to believe.

And it speaks to a larger point about deprogramming and unlearning everything that we've been taught about work, success, and living life on our own terms.

In the corporate world, it’s so black and white. You're told that your annual review relies on specific measurable benchmarks in order to show whether or not you've been successful. But success isn't a final destination, and it's definitely not quantitative.

I know we'll talk about this more during the retreat, but I definitely have a few thoughts on how we can shape our perspective of success as individuals.

The unspoken reality of marketing careers today

Based on what you’re experiencing and seeing with peers, what’s the “state” of a marketing career today?

Consumer habits and behaviors are changing so fast, probably more quickly than we've ever seen before. Which means the stakes for marketing professionals are incomprehensibly high.

And to be honest, I don't think that burnout is talked about enough when it comes to marketing. The amount of time that marketers need to spend being “on” is absurd.

There aren’t many resources right now to help marketers overcome their burnout. The most you're told in corporate is just to “take your vacation days,” or if you have unlimited vacation, hope that you don't get in trouble for potentially taking advantage of the system. There's no honest conversations with a manager or leadership team about mental health. God forbid it gets discussed and then people don’t get their work done!

Aside from burnout, most marketers are also feeling nervous about AI. It feels like either AI is coming for your job now, or you have to learn AI to keep up…only for you to be replaced by AI in the future? It's a weird situation to be in for all marketers—and nobody is candidly speaking to that. It’s the elephant in the room.

Letting boredom lead the way

What were some of the key turning points in your own career—and what did they teach you about yourself and what you wanted?

Overall, following my intuition has been the biggest game changer for me when it comes to my career. I've always let my boredom become my catalyst for change so that if I feel like I'm in a situation that doesn't satisfy me intellectually, I can find something that will. I’ve never really looked at my career as a ladder to climb, but an opportunity to advance my own skillset and knowledge.

And I guess that probably sounds a little bit selfish, but when you work in the corporate world or for a startup, you have to be your own best advocate. And being your own best advocate is incredibly difficult when you don't even know what you want anymore.

The hardest part is getting in touch with yourself to understand what you want for your own life—not what your job or society is trying to tell you that you should do or be. There’s so much unlearning that needs to happen to be able to take a step back and really understand what you actually want. We tend to evaluate desires or needs based on the perception of others, and that can create a lot of conflict and stress.

Human insight > Data data data

In your different roles, what’s something you’ve learned that goes against the conventional advice marketers are often given?

Marketers are taught to be so reliant on data, especially in the digital age.

And one thing that I've learned throughout my years being a marketer is that innovation doesn't always rely on data. Getting ahead and creating something that's truly groundbreaking won't always have the perfect rationale for why it should exist.

I think now more than ever, conversations matter. Conversations with real people and not just ChatGPT, by the way. The more you talk to people, the more you can watch their expressions and get an understanding of their lifestyle and how they think…that's just as important as a data point that's going to come from your analytics.

It feels uncomfortable because once again, we prioritize screens and numbers.

Staying grounded when the path feels uncertain

What practices or principles have helped you stay intentional about your path instead of just reacting to what comes your way?

I have two quotes that I live by, especially as a solo marketer. One is "Everything is hard before it's easy." We tend to romanticize outcomes, and we get impatient when we don't see those outcomes happen overnight. The key is to get started and accept that things might be hard, but with more consistency they become easy. And that's been a game changer for me. It's also helped me approach new projects with a curious lens instead of a performance lens. When you think about it, you could really learn to be or do anything—it’s just that focusing on having compassion and grace toward yourself will make all the difference.

The other quote comes from a TikTok video that I saw years ago. It's a woman who talks about there being “no end game.” Everyone thinks that when they get the divorce or when they leave corporate or when they buy the dream car, their life will change for the better. And while life might feel that way in the short term, there are going to be other challenges that pop up.

I have two quotes that I live by: One is "Everything is hard before it's easy." The other is “There is no end game.”

Both of these principles help me stay on track, and they also take a layer of pressure and stress off of my shoulders, because then I feel empowered to create habits for myself every day instead of hoping things will magically appear or change. Make no mistake though, it’s an ongoing practice.

Getting unstuck (without asking AI)

When you feel creatively stuck or uncertain about your direction, how do you reset?

Sometimes I can help myself, and sometimes I can't. But when I feel creatively stuck or uncertain about my direction, I know that I have to get away from my computer and phone. Doomscrolling or asking AI what I should do doesn't work (for me).

For a short-term fix, I step away from my screens and go work out. I need to change my environment to get the “stuck” feeling out of my system.

Most of the time though, my feelings of being stuck or uncertain are short-term. Where I really struggle is overthinking and not acting. So what works for me is recognizing where I want to be at the end of the year and knowing that I need to stick to the plan to get outcomes so that I can reassess. Otherwise, I might end up daydreaming and coming up with future possibilities, but not taking action.

Also, my therapist helps a lot!

A first step toward realignment

If someone reading this is feeling uninspired or misaligned in their marketing career—what would you tell them to do first?

First, know that you're not alone. And you're not the problem. You're in an industry where you're expected to be always on and it's not humanly possible, so give yourself some grace.

What I would do first is set a half hour aside every day to go for a walk. I'm not talking about an under-the-desk treadmill walk. And not a hot girl walk with your best friend. I'm talking about getting away from your computer and going for a walk by yourself.

Try to be device-less if you can pull it off. If not, bring a podcast or music, but try to work toward taking a walk without your devices.

The challenge is we never take time for ourselves. Telling someone to meditate feels like a stretch because it’s quiet and still.

But if you try a walk instead, over time, you'll find that just giving yourself a half hour to reconnect with your own thoughts works wonders.

Ready to redefine success on your own terms?

If any part of this conversation resonated with you—the burnout, the uncertainty, the craving for more meaning in your work—you’re not alone. And you don’t have to navigate it alone, either.

This fall, we’re hosting an intimate retreat in the French countryside for creative marketers, brand thinkers, and founders who are ready to pause, reconnect, and reimagine what’s next. It’s a chance to step away from the noise, reflect deeply, and return to your work with fresh energy and clarity.

We’ll be diving into many of the themes Sam shared here: redefining success, staying grounded in your intuition, and building a creative life that’s actually sustainable.

You can learn more and book your spot here. We’d love to see you!

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Notable links, convos, and events

You can see all this and more in the Campout community.

• If you know any purpose-driven businesses doing social impact work or run by founders from underrepresented groups … we’d love for them to apply to our Brand Together initiative: free brand consulting for these awesome companies.

• New event just announced! Join us for an amazing session on energy mapping with Rachel Korb. The event takes place Tuesday, July 29, at noon Eastern. We’d love to see you there!

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